IFPA Takes on Tech

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Welcome to PMA Takes on Tech. The podcast that explores the problems, solutions, people, and ideas that are shaping the future of the produce industry. I'm your host, Vonnie Estes, Vice President of Technology, for the Produce Marketing Association. And I've spent years in the agtech sector, so I can attest, it's hard to navigate this ever-changing world, in developing, and adopting new solutions to industry problems. Thanks for joining us, and for allowing us to serve as your guide to the new world of produce and technology. My goal of the podcast is to outline a problem in the produce industry, and then discuss several possible solutions that can be deployed today.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Stout Industrial Technology collaborates with customers to build and launch industrial technology solutions that are designed to last. The smart cultivator combines a proprietary, agriculturally proven, mechanical platform, with Stout True Vision technology to eliminate weeds, and cultivate ground in a single pass. Visit stoutagtech.com, that's S-T-O-U-T-A-G-T-E-C-H.com to learn more.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
With little farming land, Singapore imports over 90% of the food consumed in the country. The food at local markets mainly comes from overseas. In 2019, the government announced its 30 by 30 policy agenda, aiming to produce at least 30% of its nutritional needs domestically by 2030, while also strengthening and securing its external food sources. In April 2020, the Singapore Food Agency established the 22.6 million dollar, 30 by 30 express grant scheme, to help local agrifood producers rapidly increase production in three key categories: eggs, fish, and leafy vegetables. In September 2020, nine urban farms were offered 29 million dollar grants, by the Singapore Food Agency, as part of efforts to support the growth of local agrifood enterprises and ramp up local food production over the next 24 months. And then, in February 2021, the Singapore government announced that it will dedicate 45.2 million dollars for a new agritech fund, that will focus on supporting farmers through the use of technology, that ultimately boosts domestic food production. The purpose of the Agri-food Cluster Transformation Fund is to help farmers through the use of technology in local food production.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So there's much focus by the government to develop technology and produce food, in and for Singapore. Singapore is also a financial hub, with a number of investors willing to put money into early stage technologies, along with a talented and trained work force. Today we will hear from three very different voices on what is happening in Singapore, in agtech. First, Benny Chng from SGInnovate, will talk about the companies they are investing in at this time, and why food in Ag are important. Next, we will hear from Foong Yoke Oon, who with her husband is building a vertical farm. And finally, from Adrian Teo, from DiMuto, a global commerce solution company for the produce market. Let's drop into the conversation with Benny.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
We have with us, Benny Chng, from SG Innovate in Singapore. Welcome to the show, Benny.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Hi, thank you for having me. Hi Vonnie.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Hi. So tell us a little about yourself and also your role at SGInnovate.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Okay. You've got my name already, I'm Benny Chung, an assistant director here at SGInnovate. And I focus on the agrifood investments that we do as a company. So SGInnovate is a Singapore government-backed, early stage, Deep Tech venture capital firm. We focus on a number of areas of interest, and these include agrifood, smart manufacturing, healthcare and biomedical sciences, and sustainability. So in a nut shell, that's what we do, but we also focus on investments from the deep stage all the way up to Series B, for a first investment. And we also have a global investment mandate, so we're not just limited to investments in Singapore itself. We've done investments, for example, in United States, in Israel, and interestingly, all the way in Estonia. So there's a good mix right there.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yeah. Great. So what do you personally focus on? Do you focus on all those areas? Or do you focus more on the food side, or what's your specialty?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yeah, so I focus very much on agrifood in the way that we approach agrifood investment. We are a bit of an early stage, seeker fund of sorts. So I'm sure our listeners here today would be very familiar with the likes of Temasek or GIC, or at least heard of these companies.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Uh huh.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So they are our primary investors in a number of different areas. So we try and identify the up and coming investment trends, in the areas that we invest in. So in agrifood, we look at things that we have not invested just yet. But could be interesting for them, in the next two to five years. And we focus on investments where there is a technology defensibility. So for us, that's where we would try and catch an early wave and take the early risk, and identify possible winners in the next couple of years.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
That's fascinating. That kind of brings me to my next question of just talking about the ecosystem. So you kind of serve a little bit as a feeder of identifying those trends earlier than some of maybe the larger investment companies would.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yup.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So tell us about the agtech ecosystem, and it really seems to be growing and thriving in Singapore. So what does it look like and what sorts of companies are involved?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Okay. Well that's a question with probably a very, very long answer, so hang in there. So as a country, we're not a very big country, as our listeners I think would know. Singapore is a tiny place, it doesn't even compare to some of the cities in the United States, in terms of geographic size. But interestingly, although we only have say about 1-2% of our land used for agriculture, we produce 10% of our food just from that.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Which isn't too bad, but it's just 10%. So the Singapore government, we have seen all of the disruptions caused by COVID-19, with the issues around the Suez Canal. And food security, food resilience, is a big topic for us. So the Singapore government, through the Singapore Food Agency, which is the regulator here in Singapore, very similar to the FDA, or somewhat similar to the FDA in the States, set a target of producing 30% of our nutritional needs by 2030. So very catchy, 30 by 30, we are doing this in a number of different ways. On the agricultural side, there is a push towards automation, towards providing more land for our agricultural needs. So we're developing, for example, a agricultural pop. Very similar in many ways, to a business pop, 18 hectares, which isn't big by United States standards, but in Singapore it's a big deal. In the northern part of the country, where we will be setting aside land for farms, and for poultry, for livestock, for the growth of different crops. So we're looking into that space. We're encouraging the people also, to look into having their own family plots if you will.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
A lot of the people here in Singapore, live in high-rise flats and condominiums and so forth. But we're using some of the spaces available, even in these flats, to have little plots of homemade gardens, if you will. So we're encouraging that in small ways, so that people have a feel for that. So that's at that level. At the corporate side, there are a number of different companies involved in agriculture in Singapore. It starts all the way from the producer side. So I've briefly mentioned about the farms that produce our agricultural crops and work with livestock, so we've got a number of these sorts of companies. A number of them are modernizing. So just the other day in the news, there was this sheep farm that is moving into a six story facility, I think in the next year or the year after.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Wow.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
We will be able to take care of all of the sheep in a clean way, keep them comfortable, make sure that the temperature is all right for them, no stress. So there are things that we are doing around these areas, together the corporates here in Singapore. So you've got the producers, along further down the line, you've got folks that help the food processing, you've got folks that help the supply chains. And this is a company they've already heard of. It's a popular company of ours, DiMuto, that does the supply chain and logistics for fruits, as a start. They're looking at other products as well, but fruits is a first start. And they have signed a number of different deals, with different companies all around the world, but it's all built from Singapore.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So we've got producers, we've got the people down in the middle in food processing and supply chain logistics. We've also got a big emphasis on food and food tech. So we've got lots of ground based here in Singapore, for delivery. You've got so many different restaurants from so many different places. And you've got, of course, all of the new up and coming food tech companies developing new ingredients, new foods. So it's a really growing and vibrant ecosystem of food and agri players that we have in the country, but we are looking of course to grow it out. One thing I forgot to mention is Bühler and Givaudan, it's the large food processing companies. They have a joint lab that they're setting up, opening end of this month actually, looking at plant base food processing. So exciting things are happening in Singapore, happy to dive more into each of these, if there's time for that.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Okay.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
But again, sorry, long answer to what should have been a... It's a short version of long answer.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yeah, well there's a lot going on, so you have to answer it long. So you mentioned the 30 by 30 from the government, so is the government actually putting money in? Is the government one of the investors in trying to build the ecosystem?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yup. So the Singapore government does provide a fair amount of support, some of it's financial, some of it is too, different initiatives and schemes and programs. Schemes tends to have a bit of a negative connotation overseas. But here in Singapore, scheme is a fairly neutral word, it's just a program. But we do have a number of these initiatives that government has put forward. Singapore government acts as a capitalist in a number of different ways. We don't intend to crowd out private sector investment, it's just to kick start what was already happening. So there has been a lot of interest from agrifood players that come into Singapore, to do something here in Singapore, but we just want to kick start it and move it a lot faster. And then let private sector take over.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
But directly to your question and to your point, we for example, have 144 million dollars set aside in the next couple of years to find a number of these initiatives. And hopefully, when more and more private sector players are coming in, setting up facilities, putting in their resources, and government can then taper back some of these initiatives, some of this funding. And let private sector run with that. So yeah, again in a nutshell, Singapore government is going to help, but not to crowd out the private sector and take over the private sector's good work.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So in funding new technologies and new companies, where does the money come from them... And there is companies like you, but are there other investors that are involved? Do corporates help fund technology? And are there other investors outside of Singapore that invest in technology in Singapore?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Oh yeah, for sure. So regionally, Singapore is a financial hub in Asia, so that extends also to venture capital and private equity investment. So I've very briefly covered some of the public sector investment entities here in Singapore, so that's SG Innovate, Temasek, GIC. There's also EDBI, which represents the Economic Development Board. Also there are a number of these players, but there's also very large private sector interest that we have as well.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
A number of these firms are based here in Singapore, and they are starting to invest more heavily in agfood. So we've got a full gamete here of accelerators, incubators, going up to your VCs, your private equity firms. A number of the corporates also have invested alongside some of these financial investors. So corporate VCs, or the corporate arms themselves come in and invest directly off the ballot sheet, so we've got that. And because of our status as a financial hub, a number of foreign entities have also decided that this is a good place to invest. And setting aside the fact that we are a financial hub, we also have science and technology in the region.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So we've got a number of great facilities here, state-of-the-art facilities, people who have been well trained, who speak a number of different languages. I speak two, one not very well, but I speak... So a number of Singaporeans are able to do at least two. So this is a center of commerce, of science and technology, so it does bring together a number of different anchors who are interested to invest, to support companies growing out of Singapore.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
This may be hard to answer, because I'm sure it's different for every single person. But a lot of the people in the U.S., that go into agtech and really are trying to develop technology for food, grew up on a farm and that's their background and that's what they know. We also have a number of people who are people who grew up here where I live, in Silicon Valley, and they're the tech side and they try to take that to agriculture. Since there are not that many people in Singapore that grew up on a farm, how do people get interested in agriculture and food? Where does that interest come from?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Okay. Number of ways to answer this question. First of all, Singapore is a food nation. We come from many different lands, our folks, our ancestors, they came from places like China, India, the Malay Archipelago around us. So the one way that has helped connect all of the people, here in Singapore, is through food.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
How interesting.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So it has always been an area of interest. And there are some unique Singaporean dishes that you wouldn't find anywhere else, thanks to the mix that we have. So in the first place, the nation, as a whole, the people here are naturally inclined and predisposed to be interested in food. That's the first thing. The second thing is, in spite of our small land size, actually historically, a number of people grew up on small family plots. Tiny, really tiny by global standards, but we lived in... At least my parent's generation or my grandparents and the ones before them, they lived in tiny family plots, where they could grow their own fruit and all of that. So my mom has a lot of stories about growing all sorts of different fruits, Durian, which is not very popular. But there's Durian, there's papayas, and all of that.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So all the generation, they still have memories of their own family plots, of growing all of these things, of being self-reliant, of putting food on the table through their own hard work, doing it and growing it by themselves. And fishing, and all of that. So we've had that historically, it's just as the country has modernized in the last 50 years, some of that has gone away. But our natural interest towards food, all the generations interest in growing their own food hasn't quite gone away just yet. So there are people who are still interested to for one, get into food because they're interested in it. Two, to rediscover their roots and to find out what exactly it was that their parents, or their grandparents found interesting. I can't say that everybody would naturally be interested in food, just because of these two factors. But naturally interested in going to food as a career or agriculture as a career because of these two factors, these two factors I think have helped a number of people rediscover agriculture in Singapore and want to take part in growing the space. So again, a long answer to a short question.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
No that's fascinating. It's really interesting. You just wonder how people end up getting excited by food, and those are great reasons. So are there any technologies that you see are needed, or any solutions that technologies could solve, that you see are needed that aren't being developed? Or that you're hoping new technologies will start being developed? Does that make sense?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yeah. It does. We are excited about a number of different things. On the agricultural side, I think we are excited to find ways to reduce the incidents and prevalence of disease in crops, in livestock and in fishstock. So that's one of the directions in which we are exploring. It's possible to develop better vaccines, or probiotics, or products of that nature, in which we can help increase these yields and reduce disease. That's one aspect that we are exploring.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
The other, I think in agriculture is to maximize, or to increase yield. I think the Green Revolution in the 60s did already show that, but a lot of it is geared towards countries where, by in large, there is plenty of space. And a country like Singapore, where there's not a lot of space, we're still trying to see how we can bring up the yield. And that's something else that we're considering as well, so that we can surpass our 30 by 30 goal.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
On the food side, we are looking at different things that we could potentially do. We've gotten to a point here in Singapore, where we've modernized, we've become a first world country of sorts. We've gotten all the developed world issues, if you will, around obesity and diabetes and all of these chronic conditions. So we are looking at what we could do to replace, for example, or reduce fat and sugar and salt. And yet, not compromise our taste. One thing that consumers can't quite get around, even they do want healthier food. As we know, eating less tasty food, they can't deal with that.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
So if you want healthier food, you will still need to at least maintain the taste, if not make it tastier. So we are looking at new ingredients that could potentially play that role, on the food side. So broadly speaking, in terms of things that interest us very much, we're looking for new technologies in these areas.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So a lot of the companies in Singapore, when they develop products, or they look at building a company, are they looking at mostly the Singapore market? Or are they mostly looking at, "We're going to make a product here and then sell it to the global market?" Or some mix of both?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Well it's probably more of the ladder. The market here in Singapore is tiny. We've got just over 5 million, close to 6 million people in Singapore. If we want to compete on a global stage, be conscious of this market... So all of the startups that we invest in, we need them to have a global mindset. We would love for their businesses to be anchored here in Singapore, so they can do all of the RMD here, product development here, but if the target market sales is only Singapore, that's not interesting. It's not going to be a global winner. And for us, we need to be clear about our way. Because otherwise we would be, to be very frank, an insignificant speck on a global map. So I appreciate your words. And having all of our companies here in Singapore adopt that global mindset, where it's great to be anchored here in Singapore, but you also need to think about how you can reach the global market, how you can sell to different people overseas. And that's really the goal for companies here in Singapore.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
I used to work in industrial biotech for some period of time, and worked for a company that we had a lab in Singapore. We worked through the economic development group and just the incentives to have a lab in Singapore were really good, the financial incentives, and then the talent was amazing. The people that we could get to work for us, that were really good biologists, were surpassed to many different places. So you've got a lot of advantages there, of having some support, and then having really great talent. So that's a great place to build companies, for sure.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Oh, thank you for your kind words. We can't rest on our laurels, so it's a lot of pushing up and then above and beyond where we can.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about the companies that you're currently either just invested in, or you probably can't talk about the ones you haven't invested in, but just kind of what are some of the investments that you've done recently, is my last question.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Okay. So here in Singapore, the investor in DiMuto, like I mentioned earlier, there are a couple of other companies that we invested in. I think for us, as a company, we're focused slightly more on the food side. So we for example, invested in a company called Ai Palette, that does a bit of social media listening and identifies food trends that are coming. So to just give an example, there was a little bit of food trend a couple of years ago, where there was this salted egg yolk mix. It may sound a bit weird to foreign listeners, but salted egg yolk mix, which has this very nice savory feel to it. And people started adding it to all sorts of food products, so you have salty egg yolk burger, and all of that. So the problem for FMCGs, is identifying when such trends occur. And the Ai Palette is able to do that through social listening.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
And this trend, if I may take a step back, it came up because a café started serving certain products that included this product, this salted egg yolk mix. And people started sharing on social media, "This is great, this is wonderful, it tastes fantastic, smells great." You know, all of that. And people started picking it up and it had been café to café to café over there, their side copying that. But FMCG was slow on the uptick for the product. So I think about a year and a half after people got excited about it in the cafe, we only start seeing it appearing on shelves, FMCG said, "Okay, this is interesting, let's try something." McDonald's came onto the bandwagon. So Ai Palette then serves as a way for FMCGs for big brands to try short circuited process. They discover that people are interested in a particular food trend, and they start working on products that potentially can be served, to ride that wave. So that's a company that focuses on that.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
As an investor, we've been around for 25 years now. So we have invested in a couple of companies in agfood. Even before this term wasn't as big here in Singapore, is overdone, for example restaurant AI, ordering, even before it was a thing. So we've done a number of these things in the past, but we're trying to ramp up. And like I said, we don't just invest in Singapore, so a number of our investments are overseas as well. We invested in an Israeli company, for example, that does sugar replacement. It uses a sweet protein to replace sugar. Tastes exactly like it, I tried it, wonderful. And it doesn't have any insulin response, so it's potentially going to be a life changer for diabetics, where the taste of your drinks, your food, doesn't change. But you don't have any issues, in relation to diabetes. So we're, fingers crossed, very excited about that product.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
What's it made from? Is it a plant? Or is it through fermentation, what's it made from?

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yeah. So it's fermentation. But it's based off a sweet protein that's only found in Africa. It's a fruit that's quite rare. Very easily bruised, can't be easily transported overseas. They looked at the characteristics of their protein that's produced from this fruit. Reject a bit of the protein, but interestingly, it's a NON GMO. And they ferment it then, and that protein is added then to your drinks and to your food products. You just need a minute amount of it because it's super sweet. It's 3,000 times sweeter than sugar.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Wow. Fascinating.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Yeah, it's a product we're excited about.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
I'll have to look that up. Because yeah, people have been trying to solve that one for a long time, so that's really exciting.

Benny Chng, SGInnovate:
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. So we're looking now, other than alternative sugar, we're trying to look at alternative fat, alternative salt, alternative anything that can help us be healthier, have the food taste the same, and is cheap. So we're looking at things like that.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Great insights from Benny. We will now hear from Foong Yoke Oon, talk about building her vertical farm business, followed by DiMuto's global commerce company.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So please tell me a little about yourself and your business.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
Okay, well actually the chief driver of my farm is actually my husband, who I call the chief farmer. He comes from an IT technology telcore background. He's been doing that for 30 years and he took an early retirement, and he suddenly sort of doing farming. So he did prototyping for a couple of years in a small greenhouse space, up in the north of Singapore. I think without a clear background in farming, you need to do a lot of trial and error, a lot of research. And that's what he started doing. I've come from a marketing business development background. I was raised as part of another company in Singapore, part of Economic Development Board.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
They promote a lot of investments in Singapore. I was there initially for a couple of years and then I did hunting for a couple of years.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
And I've actually been a stay-at-home mom for the last maybe 20 years now. And getting back to work right now.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So when did the business start? When did you first start it?

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
We actually started doing a bit of market research about 2019, we started to speak to some restaurants and people who were maybe interested to be our customers. And it was a real chicken and egg situation, we approach restaurant and they tell us, "Oh, okay that's good. Do you have any samples? Can we come and see?" And we say, "Oh, we haven't started yet." But it was also very difficult for us to say, "Look, let's clunk in a couple hundred thousand to do this." Without actually knowing that the business is out there. We went through this situation where we couldn't move on. And we said, "Okay. We'll do this."

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
And my brother, who owns actually his own law firm, started to put in some money, as well. So we decided to just start up, and this is in late 2019. And we were in the midst of fitting out, when 2020 came and all, in March and April. And we were in complete lockdown. So everything had to stop, our contractors were stuck in Malaysia, they couldn't come out to Singapore. Equipment couldn't come in. So basically, for the whole of 2020, our premises was just left empty. We couldn't get me started into late 2020. So we basically really started planting late 2020, early 2021. So it really effectively, only January this year.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
So are you supplying customers now? Or are you still in the testing phases?

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
We've gone through I think two, three cycles now. And we've started initially with planting our kale and that's done quite well. We are still talking to restaurants, but I think in the time that my husband started prototyping five, six years ago till now, a lot of vertical open farms have started in Singapore. One or two have gotten very big, but there are also quite a number of small companies, like us, to startup in a small premises. Ours is about 3,000 square feet. So there is a lot of players out there and it's getting very competitive. And as we approach restaurants, they come and tell us that we've got a lot of suppliers. Pricing is a big issue for them, so it's been a bit difficult to bring into the restaurant market. So in the meantime, we've decided to do more of an online business.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
We're building a website right now, and I think what we would like to do, is to do subscription boxes. So there will be a weekly box of five, six farmer's picks of varieties. We hope to get you on board, if we do numerous orders, we do free delivery, there will be free pick up. And I think eventually, we might also like to do a membership scheme, where if you pay a certain monthly or yearly fee, the price of the box will go down, different sort of concessions to it. So I think for a start, we'll do that because I think it will be easier to get those numbers in, for the beginning stages, while we work on our selected restaurants to market to.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
How will you do the delivery? Will you do it yourselves? Or is there a service that will do the delivery for you-

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
Yeah, we've got a vendor, will come in and do delivery. Because we don't expect to be doing a daily delivery, if you order the vegetables by Friday, Saturday, we'll deliver by Monday. And maybe another one for midweek, we'll also offer a pickup service. Singapore is very small, so it's not difficult to do deliveries, you can drive more than half an hour from one end to the other.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Are you mostly doing leafy greens? Or what all are you growing?

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
At the moment we are doing, we've got a lot of kale, we've got about three varieties of kale, we're doing curly kale, kale toscano, we also have a lot of basil, mizuna, summer rocket, we've done some kalian, and we've also done strawberries.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Strawberries, wow.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
Yes, very difficult because they need lots of TLC. We germinated in December and I think we saw the first fruit in March. It's not very consistent. And actually, one of the restaurants we provided samples to, they really liked our strawberries, because they look like wild strawberries. They're not very even and the texture's a little bit unique. And she wanted 100 pieces a week and we said we can deliver. I think it's a showcase for a lot of farmers, that they can grow strawberries in Singapore, indoor. But I think to do a consistent delivery and volume and of quality as well, will be very difficult.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
So I think most greens, we can do herbs, we're doing also radishes. About several varieties of lettuces. We're growing back Chye and Ice Plant. So I think most leafy greens are growing quite well. We just need to get the consistency of the cycles, to make sure that every week we have five, six varieties growing and maybe to actually change varieties on a weekly basis. So that if you order a box from us, the next box will have two, three things that are different.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That sounds great. So do you plan to expand? Do you think you'll build another facility? Or is just doing this one going to be plenty?

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
I guess we are kind of really at the first stage right now, because ours is a vertical racking system. So right now we are only doing two levels. Not even fully two levels yet, maybe half of two levels. We can go up to four levels, but it would require lots of equipment, in terms of actually going up particularly quite high. So I think we would like to see how the subscription boxes go. I've started some initial marketing on Facebook and on IG as well. So I'm trying to develop a sort of interest with that. So I mean, for a start, we've gotten quite a good following right now. We want to launch the website actually sometime this week, so that you can order for next week. We plan to harvest in a week or two, so let's see how the numbers grow. I don't think we can even do 50, 60 boxes for a start because we haven't built up the volume. And it would be sort of a step-by-step approach.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Did you get any funding from the government? Does the government support businesses like yours? Or is it mostly friends and family that invested?

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
Well, the Singapore government is actually on the real campaign and mission now. And they have a 30 by 30 target, to grow 30% of what we consume. I think COVID highlighted the problem that we are very reliant on food exports. And if there were to be another complete shutdown, I think it would be very difficult. We can't stockpile a lot of food, especially perishables, we can't do that. We truck in a lot of vegetables from Malaysia, we are very reliant on that. So when COVID happened, it was difficult. They had to find sources from elsewhere. So the government, in the past two years, has launched a 30 million dollar grant to help farmers build up the projection in Singapore. As you know, we are very late start.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yeah.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
So what they're trying to do is just get the traditional farms to actually re-engineer themselves to do a lot of high technology farming. So it means compact spaces, by building up, by using a lot more technology, so we don't use the label, which is expensive in Singapore. So there's a very, very big drive. We've approached Singapore Food Agency, with a lead agency in Singapore, to promote, in terms of getting grants. We are still in discussion with them, but they would like us to also prove that we are very technologically advanced. So you need to be able to put in parameters where your use of lighting, or use of water has improved in terms of using technology, so productivity improvements have to be there.

Foong Yoke Oon, Ubertas AgriTech Pte Lt:
So we are talking to them, so the government is very supportive. But I think small businesses, it's also difficult because we are starting up more, we have to think about the business and yet we have to put up this huge proposal to prove to the government that we are very productive, we've applied a lot of technology to actually get the grants. But in the last budget... In fact, the 30 million has already been used up because there are a lot of small open farms now. I would suspect about 10, 15 now. So it's a new trench of about 30, 40 million that they've put in the budget for this sector. And it's not just for vegetable farming, but for fish farming and prawn farming as well. So there's a lot of agriculture, I think the fish farming is also advanced a lot in Singapore, in terms of doing it in indoor spaces.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Please tell me about yourself and your company.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
So my name is Adrian and I work for DiMuto, I'm the Chief Operating Officer for DiMuto. DiMuto is a Singapore based blockchain traceability company. We started in March 2019, so we are a little over two years old. And we have developed a solution that allows us to use blockchain, to track and trace produce from farm to table. And primarily, trying to solve issues like trade disputes, arising from the lack of data visibility in our suppliers traits. But also on the retail side, helping retailers understand where their produce comes from. And then also allowing them and empowering them with the tools to then be able to engage with their end consumers. Yeah.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Great. So there's so many services packed into that answer. So who are your main paying customers? What part of the chain do people actually pay you and extract the value? And then can you tell us about some of the customers and then what are some of the services that people use the most.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
Yeah, great question Vonnie. So actually that short introduction I had, wasn't all the services we provide actually. But the main key customers that we target are the ones who are actually supplying it. So the farm producers, or even a packing house, exporters even. Because they are the ones that in the first place, would get the most pinpoints. So I'll give you an example all right, so we have several customers out of Europe, Southeast Asia. But they do trades with China. So a lot of times what they face, is buyers from China would tell them that, "Hey, as a result of a quality issue, when we receive your goods, we're just going to write off 20% or 10% of credit just as claims."

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
But yeah exactly, and the suppliers would then be puzzled, right. Because they are thinking, "Wait a second, I sent this in great conditions. It's been a painstaking harvest season for us. We've put so much tender loving care into ensuring that our products are great. Sent that over and now you're telling me there are issues." And many times, how do they tell you that there're issues, to just send a couple of WhatsApp pictures or some random images. It can be a bit dubious in that sense because you don't really know exactly where those images come from, or which box they're talking about, et cetera, etcetera. So that just creates a lot more confusion for the suppliers and at the end of the day, just to save the relationship with the buyer, and to ensure that their networks into those markets are stable, they will absorb those costs. But as you know, once you keep on absorbing those costs, it adds up to your bottom line.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yeah, and especially now with COVID, it's not like you could go visit and say, "Show me what happened." So that's really interesting. So when you go to make a sale, like you go to a supplier and is that kind of what you lead with? You say, "This will help you handle those disputes." Is that the main selling point?

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
Well it really depends on what our suppliers, or rather our customers, are looking for. So many times they might explain to us that, "Hey, they don't have a traceability system." So then we come in and say, "Hey, here's a food package traceability system that's on a blockchain and we connect to the others on networks as well." But then there are customers who come here and say, "Hey, you know what, I've got issues with trade disputes, can you help us solve that?" Now there's another service that we do provide, which is really a value added service, as a result of being able to see very clearly the data points within your trade. And that's actually the financial services aspect.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Oh.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
So for example, I just got off a call yesterday with a new sort of company that sells blueberries and strawberries out of South Africa. Really awesome branding, really awesome marketing strategies that they have employed. But really new company, although they have 20, 30 years of experience in that industry, collectively. But they are at the stage where they really want to breakout of just the South African market into the global markets. Either, is it in China or Southeast Asia. But they don't have the working capital to do that. Right. And as well all know, we're all tied down to your end customers payment terms. Which can be prohibitive sometimes, actually all the time, in doing more business. Right?

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
So I can speak just for Singapore and Southeast Asia, typically we get in excess of 30 or 45 days upon arrival, in terms of payment terms. And that's something that many of the suppliers worldwide in Europe, in Americas, aren't too happy about, unless you have an ongoing and longstanding sort of relationship. And because of those long payment cycles, your working capital is locked up. And when it's locked up, you face a lot of issues trying to grow and breakout and compete with your other competitors in that market as well. Now then layer on issues like trade disputes and claim issues, on top of that, and you can imagine your payment cycles are just going to get extended way beyond the 30 or 45 days.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
So where DiMuto comes in, is that we're able to help you digitalize your trade from farm to the table. The entire documentation level, product level, have that all visible on the platform. Some of this information are part of the blockchain, so that we can ensure transparency and trust. But the beautiful thing about having your information digitalized on the platform now, is that we invite financing companies, supply chain factory companies, credit insurance companies, to come in to reduce the risk involved from a payment default, for example. And then we finance, either the supplier or the buyer. Right. So something like, if we finance the supplier, what we will do is we would ensure that your products are tracked, we send those information to the financing company. The moment your goods arrive in good condition at the buyer's location, up to 70-80% of the entire trade value will be paid to you upfront. Right. So Vonnie, can you imagine what that would do for your business, if you're able to now unlock up to 80% of that trade value within the next day and then roll that over for more trades.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
It's a great service. You mentioned a number of different regions and countries. What is your global footprint? How many different countries are you working in?

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
I think we are close to at least ten countries. I can roll it off like a rap if you want me to.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Sure, go ahead. I'm sure they're at the top of your head.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
Southeast Asia of course. Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand. We're trying to make en routes into Vietnam right now, and the Philippines, we have a footprint there. And then East Asia, so in China, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. So we are really strong in that East/Southeast Asia aspects.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
But we're also, from a supplier standpoint, we have suppliers from Latin America, so we have Mexico, Columbia, Peru, Chile. Now we're trying to tap into Brazil as well, huge market there.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Yes.

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
And then talking about the Pacific region, we've got Australia. Then moving West, we've got Africa, so South Africa. We're now doing a pilot of soybeans in Ghana, so that's exciting. And then interestingly, we are also now doing flowers out of Holland. So we are shipping flowers from Kenya to Holland and then onwards to the rest of Western or Eastern European countries. And then yeah, UK for sure.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So this episode that I'm doing right now is on Singapore and looking at Singapore companies and trying to help the rest of the world understand what it's like to be a business in Singapore. So why did you start your company there in Singapore? What was the reason to start there? Because you were all there? Or were there other reasons?

Adrian Teo, DiMuto:
Yeah Vonnie, I think that is the first and foremost reason perhaps. That we're all Singaporeans, Gary the founder, runs and is still part of the board of a fruits trading company based in Singapore as well, and that's sort of the natural progression for us to continue being in Singapore. But I think beyond this obvious reason as well, I think Singapore is a great place to start, especially an agtech company. Anything related to technology, and that's really because of the sort of ecosystem that the Singapore government has really built over the past few decades, to support such innovations to happen around here. So it's not just from a financial standpoint, where they give those supports in the form of grants, or funds that we can tap into. But even the professional support, the intellectual support that happens around here, especially in Singapore, is something that is very attractive for us to remain in.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
These three conversations are like dropping into what a good ecosystem can bring to a sector. Government support, private sector financing, smart entrepreneurs, with all areas willing to take risks to support growth. I love that Singapore is both working at developing food for itself and also as Benny says, developing technology for the rest of the world as well.

Vonnie Estes, PMA:
That's it for this episode for PMA Takes on Tech. Thanks for allowing us to serve as your guide to the new world of produce and technology. Be sure to check out all our episodes at PMA.com and wherever you get your podcasts. Please subscribe and I would love to get any comments or suggestions of what you might want me to take on. For now, stay safe, eat your fruits and vegetables, and we will see you next time.